51 (edited by Zu 2013-12-01 23:32:29)

Re: Warframe

Grilleds wrote:

A couple frames have that problem though. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of the game's content is under level 50, especially now that enemy levels have been reduced.  But yes, I'd be hesitant to take her to a T3 defense. Then again, I'd be hesitant to take any frame other than Nova, Rhino, Vauban, or Frost to a T3 defense.

Lol reduced. It's all a lie to convince newbies to tackle higher level shit. They just visually reduced the levels. Everything is as difficult as always if not more cuz Damage 2.0, son. You just need to multiply enemy levels by 2.5~

Zyreth wrote:

The whole point of Hysteria is to get into the middle of the fight and rip stuff to shreds. It does this perfectly fine. I'm currently hitting 500+ per hit with Hysteria using a Max Focus and a Rank 4 Blind Rage

*puts you into T3 Void Survival and Defense*
Have fun receiving all the hatred of everyone ever.

http://i.imgur.com/QDLXRNY.png

Re: Warframe

Zu wrote:
Grilleds wrote:

A couple frames have that problem though. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of the game's content is under level 50, especially now that enemy levels have been reduced.  But yes, I'd be hesitant to take her to a T3 defense. Then again, I'd be hesitant to take any frame other than Nova, Rhino, Vauban, or Frost to a T3 defense.

Lol reduced. It's all a lie to convince newbies to tackle higher level shit. They just visually reduced the levels. Everything is as difficult as always if not more cuz Damage 2.0, son. You just need to multiply enemy levels by 2.5~

Is it 2.5? I always thought it was x2ish. Damn, I'm killing stuff faster than I thought then o_O

53

Re: Warframe

Dem devs claim level 40 is the old level 100. Then again, they also claim that Radiation should be used against Grineer. Indeed.

http://i.imgur.com/QDLXRNY.png

Re: Warframe

Zu wrote:
Grilleds wrote:

A couple frames have that problem though. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of the game's content is under level 50, especially now that enemy levels have been reduced.  But yes, I'd be hesitant to take her to a T3 defense. Then again, I'd be hesitant to take any frame other than Nova, Rhino, Vauban, or Frost to a T3 defense.

Lol reduced. It's all a lie to convince newbies to tackle higher level shit. They just visually reduced the levels. Everything is as difficult as always if not more cuz Damage 2.0, son. You just need to multiply enemy levels by 2.5~

That's only in terms of what enemies can do to you. Their health, armor, and shield values are about what their level would seem to indicate on the old damage system. Hence why heavy Grineer now seem to die so easily, despite being able to flatten you just as quickly. Still, the game as a whole is much easier now it seems.

Zu wrote:

Dem devs claim level 40 is the old level 100. Then again, they also claim that Radiation should be used against Grineer. Indeed.

Yeah the devs give a lot of misinformation.

If I say so myself.

Re: Warframe

Zu wrote:

*puts you into T3 Void Survival and Defense*
Have fun receiving all the hatred of everyone ever.

If that's the case, it just proves yet another community is unable to adapt. A Warframe should not be the result of power creep because people are unable to adapt in a certain situation. Nova is already the result of such a thing. I'd rather not see another good frame join the ranks of Nova.

56 (edited by Zu 2013-12-02 01:52:34)

Re: Warframe

Grilleds wrote:

That's only in terms of what enemies can do to you. Their health, armor, and shield values are about what their level would seem to indicate on the old damage system. Hence why heavy Grineer now seem to die so easily, despite being able to flatten you just as quickly. Still, the game as a whole is much easier now it seems.


Don't worry. Higher level Grineer ladies still take forever to kill, even with close range headshots with a potatoed Brakk concentrating on puncture and corrosive damage. So yeah, the Void is telling me that I'm up against some level 60 folks, but they feel like level 120.


Zyreth wrote:

If that's the case, it just proves yet another community is unable to adapt. A Warframe should not be the result of power creep because people are unable to adapt in a certain situation. Nova is already the result of such a thing. I'd rather not see another good frame join the ranks of Nova.


Wall of text, cha chang~ Show
You mean the only Warframe in the game right now who can reliably kill large groups of enemies in one shot until like wave 20 on Xini but literally cannot do anything else beyond that and is therefore largely dependent upon the rest of the group?


You see where this is going. You claim that Nova is overpowered. I claim that Nova is good at getting rid of large groups of enemies until they become so powerful that at least the extra damage vulnerability on enemies caused by her ultimate ability is still enough to warrant her being there. So she is definitely a wonderful addition to any team on Defense, Mobile Defense, and Survival, the three most popular mission types for gaining experience and resources, which is what this game boils down to after you have played it for hundreds of hours and refuse to spend ages trying to level up this new shiny toy that you got to find out whether it is any good.


This is why Valkyr is disappointing to me. She does not really fit into any of these modes. At best, she will be fine on her own for a considerable amount of time during Survival without needing the help of anyone else. That is going to change once the timer reaches a certain threshold at which point she will be functioning as a tank who is restricted to non-elemental melee attacks and can stun a relatively small group of enemies ad infinitum or until she runs out of energy. That is a nice thing to have in general, don't get me wrong. It's like Banshee's ultimate except really cheap. She can essentially replace Vauban for crowd control on Defense because of that very spammable nature of Paralysis. But, and this is a very large smelly butt, she has to commit to Paralysis at all times to sustain its effect. She virtually removes herself from the team and adds a minor self-defense mechanism for the pod.


Same thing with Banshee's ultimate. Sure, you're preventing dudes from reaching the pod, but you're not doing a whole lot otherwise. At least Banshee still has Sonic Boom despite it being a weak reverse Pull. And this is balanced by the fantastic damage potential of Sonar, so it's not all frustratingly underwhelming.


The previous spoiler contains too much textual material, didn't read: Show
Valkyr is a tank. We don't need tanks. People like Rhino primarily because of the temporary damage buff and large AoE stasis which just so happens to synergize with his Iron Skin due to Strength mods. People like Trinity because she can render the entire team invulnerable and distribute some free energy, not because she can tank some hits with Link.


So unless they change Warcry's defensive aspect so it is actually worth something by itself and not entirely reliant on Blessing to be used effectively, or apply a generous buff to Paralysis that justifies having Valkyr on the team for that ability only, those who enjoy playing as Valkyr will continue to be frowned upon for casually joining a T3 Defense mission or assuming that they are going to be praised for their minute contributions during lengthy Survival sessions.


The actual TL,DR:
People are not asking for everyone to be Nova. In fact, Nova is not an omnipotent Warframe by any stretch of the imagination. What people want is for every Warframe to be reasonably viable for one particular job or at least well-rounded enough to provide acceptable results for a variety of jobs even against the most formidable of enemy forces. The keyphrase here is "end game potential."


This is why the developers need to keep rebalancing their Warframes. If they don't, people will inevitably regret having crafted or purchased certain Warframes because they are plainly outperformed by others. Eventually, some Warframes are going to be ignored by the majority of players due to their negative reputation. And that is the point when the developers are either going to feel like some of their work was a huge waste of time or need to invest even more time on that one Warframe that nobody wants to play with just to promote it and any convincing changes that they have conducted to make it attractive again.


The actual, truthful, one and only TL,DR:
Balance the entire fucking roster already, for fuck's sake!

http://i.imgur.com/QDLXRNY.png

57 (edited by Grilleds 2013-12-02 05:38:56)

Re: Warframe

Zu wrote:
Grilleds wrote:

That's only in terms of what enemies can do to you. Their health, armor, and shield values are about what their level would seem to indicate on the old damage system. Hence why heavy Grineer now seem to die so easily, despite being able to flatten you just as quickly. Still, the game as a whole is much easier now it seems.


Don't worry. Higher level Grineer ladies still take forever to kill, even with close range headshots with a potatoed Brakk concentrating on puncture and corrosive damage. So yeah, the Void is telling me that I'm up against some level 60 folks, but they feel like level 120.

That contradicts my experience. Because I still manage to oneshot level 45ish Heavy Machinegunners with my Strun Wraith at times and I don't even have max ranked Serration.

My point was a level 20 enemy before damage 2.0 seems to have almost the same exact health as a level 20 enemy after. The difficulty of enemies for their level was upped, but that was entirely due to the fact they can now inflict status effects. Their health actually seems to have lowered with their level. Means I'm now oneshotting enemies on the supposedly high level planets.
.

Zu wrote:

You mean the only Warframe in the game right now who can reliably kill large groups of enemies in one shot until like wave 20 on Xini but literally cannot do anything else beyond that and is therefore largely dependent upon the rest of the group?

I disagree with this. Nova with the right build can trivialize most of the game. Her only problem is her squishyness, which is a problem she shares with a lot of frames that are quite frankly nowhere near as useful as she is *cough*Banshee*cough*. Null Star makes her squishyness less of an issue anyway since it seeks out and staggers enemies for you at an absurdly low energy cost for its usefulness (even if damage is low). Besides, even before damage 2.0 it wasn't rare for me to destroy almost a whole wave in T3 defense with M-Prime due to its multiplicative increase in damage proportional to the number of explosions, meaning she even trivializes endgame content.  However I do not think Nova is the most overpowered frame in the game at the moment. That honor rests with Rhino, a frame that has godmode when facing up to near-endgame content, and still remains viable in the endgame due to a damage buff and a CC ultimate with ridiculous range, very little cast time, and the closest thing to a balancing factor being that it does 200 damage less than most other ultimates (as if that matters).

Zu wrote:

This is why Valkyr is disappointing to me. She does not really fit into any of these modes. At best, she will be fine on her own for a considerable amount of time during Survival without needing the help of anyone else. That is going to change once the timer reaches a certain threshold at which point she will be functioning as a tank who is restricted to non-elemental melee attacks and can stun a relatively small group of enemies ad infinitum or until she runs out of energy. That is a nice thing to have in general, don't get me wrong. It's like Banshee's ultimate except really cheap. She can essentially replace Vauban for crowd control on Defense because of that very spammable nature of Paralysis. But, and this is a very large smelly butt, she has to commit to Paralysis at all times to sustain its effect. She virtually removes herself from the team and adds a minor self-defense mechanism for the pod.

I partially agree, but I think you aren't giving her usefulness in survival missions enough credit. You say she falls off in usefulness once the timer reaches a certain threshold, but that threshold is usually after the 25 minute mark, which is around the time you start facing level 50+ enemies who will take 5-10 fire punches to take down. You also need to keep in mind that she can continue using her skills while in Hysteria. There really isn't any reason to not crank a Paralysis out every time your shields recharge, and you can always fire out a War Cry every now and then. Yes, her skills are crappy, but they are all very low risk since she can just rush around collecting energy while invincible. Hysteria is also better than invisibility when reviving teammates since you can draw AoE away from other teammates. She can also easily cross large sections of the map with Rip Line, which is a MUCH better mobility skill than Bounce or Super Jump, and costs less than Worm Hole. That extra mobility comes in handy during survival maps where you have to change elevation a lot, since she can avoid taking ramps or elevators and quickly be where she needs to be.


I agree she is pretty crappy in every other mode though, especially defense. But I wouldn't say she is ever a bottom tier pick.

If I say so myself.

Re: Warframe

Zu wrote:

You claim that Nova is overpowered.

I did not claim any such thing. Nova is not overpowered, Molecular Prime is.


Nova is meant to destroy her enemies so why does she bring 2 forms of Utility in her "main" AoE nuke? A potent damage buff and a slow on top of that to anything affected. Where does Nova make her trade off?


Look at Ember. Another nuke based mage-style Warframe just like Nova. Ember makes her trade offs by specializing against a particular faction and having no utility. She doesn't go around clearing entire rooms with a single skill.


Zu wrote:

You mean the only Warframe in the game right now who can reliably kill large groups of enemies in one shot until like wave 20 on Xini but literally cannot do anything else beyond that and is therefore largely dependent upon the rest of the group?

Grilleds summed this up better than I care to right now.


Zu wrote:

This is why Valkyr is disappointing to me.

So because the Valkyr disappoints you, you think she should receive a range buff on Hysteria? I said it before and I'll say it again; No. Melee should mean Melee. And Melee is exactly what she does.


I won't lie though, I'd take a range buff to Hysteria compared to the other crap people are suggesting over at the feedback forums. Some form of Life regen on Hysteria and/or more shields? Hah! They complain about power creep and don't even realise that they're the source of it. ¬_¬


Zu wrote:

The actual, truthful, one and only TL,DR:
Balance the entire fucking roster already, for fuck's sake!

Never going to happen. Imagine a vertical scale in your mind and place every warframe where you think they belong. Anything below the...let's say top quarter of that scale is considered trash by the community when in fact it's the bottom quarter that is "trash" and needs help.


Thankfully, DE are taking the right steps here and have brought Ember and Volt back to the middle of said imaginary scale.

Now about Frost...


In closing


I apologize if I've come off as rude and arrogant in this reply, it's 6:25 am as of typing this and I'm tired and grumpy. Take that into consideration when and if you reply to this. It might also mean I don't make any sense, my bad.

Re: Warframe

Zyreth wrote:
Zu wrote:

You claim that Nova is overpowered.

I did not claim any such thing. Nova is not overpowered, Molecular Prime is.


Nova is meant to destroy her enemies so why does she bring 2 forms of Utility in her "main" AoE nuke? A potent damage buff and a slow on top of that to anything affected. Where does Nova make her trade off?

I should point out that Nova's ultimate doesn't do its damage instantly. Its barely a trade off at all, but in some of the larger map tiles on non-survival missions, or simply when enemies are spread out too far for the explosions to chain, it wouldn't kill enemies as quickly as a skill like, say, Crush. Its still a pretty damn OP skill though.

Zyreth wrote:
Zu wrote:

This is why Valkyr is disappointing to me.

So because the Valkyr disappoints you, you think she should receive a range buff on Hysteria? I said it before and I'll say it again; No. Melee should mean Melee. And Melee is exactly what she does.


I won't lie though, I'd take a range buff to Hysteria compared to the other crap people are suggesting over at the feedback forums. Some form of Life regen on Hysteria and/or more shields? Hah! They complain about power creep and don't even realise that they're the source of it. ¬_¬

I'm actually with Zu on this. The attack range on Hysteria's punches is deceptively shorter than the attack animation would seem to indicate and I'd like that to be fixed just to take care of some of the confusion. Also, anyone who thinks Hysteria needs life regen, really needs to get Equilibrium and Rage. I swear its more ridiculous than the old Rage + QT combo, at least with Valkyr.


I also hope the devs don't give her more shields or people will start whining about how Valkyr has an OP 5 energy cost nuke.

If I say so myself.

60 (edited by Zu 2013-12-02 18:10:52)

Re: Warframe

Grilleds wrote:

Even before damage 2.0 it wasn't rare for me to destroy almost a whole wave in T3 defense with M-Prime due to its multiplicative increase in damage proportional to the number of explosions, meaning she even trivializes endgame content.

You know who else trivializes endgame content? Nyx and Vauban. But for some reason, people don't complain about those. I mean, especially Vauban can still completely incapacitate the entire map if necessary as long as single instances of Bastille don't overlap, so the recent nerf to its holding limit really isn't an issue for him. That is much more valuable than clearing out the small fry with Molecular Prime, at least to me it is.


Zyreth wrote:

Ember and Volt back to the middle of said imaginary scale.

What did they do to make them supposedly better anyway? Does the new damage system really make that much of a difference?

http://i.imgur.com/QDLXRNY.png

Re: Warframe

Zu wrote:
Grilleds wrote:

Even before damage 2.0 it wasn't rare for me to destroy almost a whole wave in T3 defense with M-Prime due to its multiplicative increase in damage proportional to the number of explosions, meaning she even trivializes endgame content.

You know who else trivializes endgame content? Nyx and Vauban. But for some reason, people don't complain about those. I mean, especially Vauban can still completely incapacitate the entire map if necessary as long as single instances of Bastille don't overlap, so the recent nerf to its holding limit really isn't an issue for him. That is much more valuable than clearing out the small fry with Molecular Prime, at least to me it is.

Nyx is great in endgame defense missions, but she only has one useful skill and it suffers from a "power in use" issue if you say... Missed a roller under a staircase 3 rooms back. Nyx better damn well trivialize endgame defense missions because she can't do anything else well. Besides, CCing an entire group of enemies < killing them. I don't know if damage 2.0 changed this, but I've practically soloed T3 defense up to the last 5 waves as Nova with only a barely equipped Frost and Loki helping me out (as in, one of them was using a freaking Braton). Yeah, Heavy Machinegunners end up surviving the chain explosions, but that's still only around 5-8 enemies left standing. In the last 5 waves you might also see a few light enemies still standing around with low health, but they are now slowed, taking double damage and explode with 80% of the damage of the average ultimate when killed.



Vauban is pretty great too. In fact I'd say Vauban is about at the level other frames should be brought up to. However he doesn't really "trivialize" defense missions quite as much as he used to, and that is mainly due to energy expenditure. Yeah, he can still put an entire wave in stasis with a few Bastille's, but he is spending way more energy doing that than other frames would by just using their ultimate a few times. Even still he does eventually outdo the other frames once enemy levels get arbitrarily high, but at that point you still want a Nova on your team to multiply damage output due to how the enemies are all bullet sponges in higher levels. Still, Vauban is flexible unlike Nyx. I mean hell, his Bastille even works on one boss (Zanuka), and his Vortex makes mobile defense missions into absolute jokes.



Fact is Nova is OP. We can continue to argue "well in this specific instance she isn't" all we want, but it doesn't change the fact that she is simply better than almost every other frame in most cases. People like to argue about how CC eventually outdoes damage abilities, but they don't realize how arbitrarily high levels need to be for that to be completely true, and that M-Prime is simply on a whole other level than every other damage ability due to the fact that its multiplicative and also applies debuffs.

If I say so myself.

62

Re: Warframe

Grilleds wrote:

Fact is Nova is OP. We can continue to argue "well in this specific instance she isn't" all we want, but it doesn't change the fact that she is simply better than almost every other frame in most cases. People like to argue about how CC eventually outdoes damage abilities, but they don't realize how arbitrarily high levels need to be for that to be completely true, and that M-Prime is simply on a whole other level than every other damage ability due to the fact that its multiplicative and also applies debuffs.

Not saying she isn't OP. Just saying that I think it's rather silly how only she takes flak for that one ability. For example, Cyath is a comparably popular farming spot on Eris and is entirely trivialized by any dps-centric weapon with penetration and Vauban's Vortex, which costs only 25 energy points whilst still lasting forever with a dedicated build. You only need to place one at every station as well, sit back and relax.


You don't even have to wait for the right moment to use it or use it multiple times on different groups of enemies or rely on the crowd control abilities of other frames to bunch up dem enemies nice and tight before nuking them. Yet nobody seems to be complaining about that. Why? Because you don't just get passive exp like when having a Nova on the team?


I dunno, son. Just seems a bit hypocritical. It's like saying it's fine because Vaubee has a cool beard. >ω>

http://i.imgur.com/QDLXRNY.png

Re: Warframe

Nova problems? BRB busy getting 78% damage dealt with shit like Sound Quake, Rhino Stomp, Pull and Overload because of a lovely mod named Fleeting Expertise.

Re: Warframe

Saryn changes <3


I have long awaited this day.

Re: Warframe

Zyreth wrote:

Saryn changes <3


I have long awaited this day.

What changes?

Re: Warframe

Terrafawkes Tenko wrote:
Zyreth wrote:

Saryn changes <3


I have long awaited this day.

What changes?

Venom (First Power) - Now does viral damage.
Molt (Second Power) – The Molt Decoy now gets increased health with fusion level.
Miasma (Fourth Power) - Damage increase and changed to corrosive damage type.


Saryn changes here
Valkyr changes here
Ember changes here

Re: Warframe

Zyreth wrote:
Terrafawkes Tenko wrote:
Zyreth wrote:

Saryn changes <3


I have long awaited this day.

What changes?

Venom (First Power) - Now does viral damage.
Molt (Second Power) – The Molt Decoy now gets increased health with fusion level.
Miasma (Fourth Power) - Damage increase and changed to corrosive damage type.


Saryn changes here
Valkyr changes here
Ember changes here

Awesome

Re: Warframe

MAGISTAR

Re: Warframe

I actually play this game, but i'm alone.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5151734/6tYrzmhFpvm2Z0x3UDny3L9qoygEU2final.gif

Re: Warframe

Macmaxi wrote:

I actually play this game, but i'm alone.

Feel free to add me in game. Username is Zyreth (surprise surprise). I'm normally active from 3pm-6am GMT.

71

Re: Warframe

>health regen for hysteria
>trinity still amazing
>added oberon

Oh, how very useful to have that side effect. :,3

http://i.imgur.com/QDLXRNY.png

Re: Warframe

Trinity for life

Re: Warframe

Messload of platinum acquired recently, used them for Formas, two weapons (Glave and Heat Dagger), a BUNCH of slots... and passs 60 of it to my lil bro.

http://i.imgur.com/5CqWz5C.jpg
I allways wanted a thing called tuna sashimi!

Re: Warframe

Terrafawkes Tenko wrote:

Trinity for life

Saryn 4eva


Also, that new Infested Whip takes a crap ton of credits and materials to make neutral

Re: Warframe

Zyreth wrote:
Terrafawkes Tenko wrote:

Trinity for life

Saryn 4eva


Also, that new Infested Whip takes a crap ton of credits and materials to make neutral

Saryn's my second right after Trinity. As one of those folks who've been asking for whips since April, the addition of Scoliac and Lecta makes me super happy smile Best part is their fire rate, you can use them to fly. Oh, and have a picture.


http://i.imgur.com/ECoLvmU.jpg?1